From rusdiah at rad.net.id Tue Nov 17 05:39:08 2009 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:39:08 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> Message-ID: <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> the news below from telecomasia is quite interesting... actually we in Asia pacific should also asked Mr Obama about the issue of wiretapping internet and email in USA and its allies... when Mr Obama raised the same question to student in Shanghai University yesterday. Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... an interesting issue discussed in IGF forum in Egypt this week How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly licensing of proprietary (IPR) and expensive software... and Internet as a free, neutral and open platform ? is it possible ? regards, rudi rusdiah - Association of Community Internet - Indonesia Obama calls for free internet in China Robert Clark | November 17, 2009 telecomasia.net President Obama's call for the easing of China's internet restrictions yesterday was predictably blocked by Chinese censors. Obama's comments at a town hall-style meeting in Shanghai lasted 27 minutes on NetEase's home page, /China Digital Times/ reported . "I've always been a strong supporter of open Internet use," Obama said . "I think that the more freely information flows, the stronger the society becomes, because then citizens of countries around the world can hold their own governments accountable." "I'm a big supporter of non-censorship.... I can tell you that in the United States, the fact that we have free Internet --- or unrestricted internet access is a source of strength, and I think should be encouraged." His meeting with 500 students was streamed online through a single Shanghai site, /Xinwen Zonghe/, and the White House website. It was also broadcast through Facebook, which is blocked in China. The state-owned Xinhua website, which had promised live coverage, gave text updates and photos, /scmp.com /said. Robin Gross wrote: > Thanks for forwarding this story, Fouad. I was very disappointed to > hear the UN Security Forces were being used to remove unsanctioned > content from the meeting. However, I'm not there, and am very keen > to hear from those who were present at this incident more facts and > impressions about what actually happened and why, as there are > conflicting reports, and this is a very serious incident. > > Thanks, > Robin > > > On Nov 16, 2009, at 1:11 AM, Fouad Bajwa wrote: > >> Forwarded for information: >> >> IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office: >> http://www.mis-asia.com/news/articles/igf-2009-event-rattled-by-un-security-office >> >> "If we cannot discuss topics about Internet censorship and >> surveillance policy at a forum about Internet governance then what is >> the point of something like the IGF," said Ron Deibert, director of >> the Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto's Munk Centre for >> International Studies and one of ONI's principal investigators. >> By Rabia Garib >> >> KARACHI, 15 NOVEMBER 2009 - An anti-censorship group holding an event >> Sunday at the United Nations-sponsored Internet Governance Forum (IGF) >> in Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt, was disrupted by UN officials who demanded >> removal of a poster that mentioned Internet firewalls in China. >> >> According to a Pakistani delegate, Shahzad Ahmed of Bytesforall.net, a >> reception hosted by Open Net Initiative (ONI) was rattled by IGF >> security, who objected to a poster advertising "Access Controlled", a >> book being introduced at the event. "The poster was thrown on the >> floor and we were told to remove it because of the reference to China >> and Tibet. We refused, and security guards came and removed it. The >> incident was witnessed by many," Ahmed reported. >> >> The poster promoting ONI's forthcoming book, "Access Controlled" was >> removed by the IGF's organizers because a sentence in the poster >> apparently violated UN policy. The sentence in question reads, "The >> first generation of Internet controls consisted largely of building >> firewalls at key Internet gateways; China's famous "Great Firewall of >> China" is one of the first national Internet filtering systems." >> >> "If we cannot discuss topics about Internet censorship and >> surveillance policy at a forum about Internet governance then what is >> the point of something like the IGF," said Ron Deibert, director of >> the Citizen Lab at the University of Toronto's Munk Centre for >> International Studies and one of ONI's principal investigators. >> >> Deibert, one of the organizers of the reception, said he will file a >> complaint against the censorship of the event and send it to the >> United Nations Human Rights Commission. >> >> "We condemn this undemocratic act of censoring our event just because >> someone is trying to impress or be in the good graces of the Chinese >> government. It is ironic that while people are allowed to gather here >> to discuss freedom of expression online, censorship and surveillance >> practices on the Internet, we are being restricted in expressing our >> views," said Al Alegre of the Foundation for Media Alternatives, a >> member of the ONI Network. >> >> -- >> Regards. >> -------------------------- >> Fouad Bajwa >> Advisor & Researcher >> ICT4D & Internet Governance >> Member Multistakeholder Advisory Group (IGF) >> Member Civil Society Internet Governance Caucus (IGC) >> My Blog: Internet's Governance >> http://internetsgovernance.blogspot.com/ >> Follow my Tweets: >> http://twitter.com/fouadbajwa >> MAG Interview: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATVDW1tDZzA > > > > > IP JUSTICE > Robin Gross, Executive Director > 1192 Haight Street, San Francisco, CA 94117 USA > p: +1-415-553-6261 f: +1-415-462-6451 > w: http://www.ipjustice.org e: robin at ipjustice.org > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20091117/c586921b/attachment.htm From rms at gnu.org Wed Nov 18 13:10:54 2009 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 07:10:54 -0500 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah on Tue, 17 Nov 2009 11:39:08 +0700) References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> Message-ID: Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... Not all countries block access to particular Internet sites. (The US does not.) It is true that many countries have such policies or are trying to establish them. This is an injustice no matter where it is done, and no matter what the excuse. Obama does not favor an "open internet". Outside of countries such as China, the nastiest form of restriction of the internet is the War on Sharing, which Obama supports. So he is being hypocritical here. How should we respond to his hypocrisy? Should we reject criticism of China, just because someone who also does wrong joins in the criticism? Certainly not! What we should do is criticize the US _also_. Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in country B. How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly licensing of proprietary (IPR) I agree with the sentiment, but it is not good to use the term "IPR". It doesn't refer to anythin coherent. What it SEEMS to mean is a false picture of actual laws, and a false idea of their motives. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html. From correia.rui at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 13:47:23 2009 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:47:23 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Fwd: Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> Message-ID: Hi All (Glad to see the list is still alive) In Portugal, the police wiretapped the Prime Minister's phone in the course of an investigation about corporate corruption. I haven't been following the case closely, but if that is ndeed the case, then well done for having the guts! More on the case, if interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_Oculta Regards, Rui 2009/11/18 Richard Stallman Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has > censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... > > Not all countries block access to particular Internet sites. (The US > does not.) It is true that many countries have such policies or are > trying to establish them. This is an injustice no matter where it is > done, and no matter what the excuse. > > Obama does not favor an "open internet". Outside of countries such as > China, the nastiest form of restriction of the internet is the War on > Sharing, which Obama supports. So he is being hypocritical here. > > How should we respond to his hypocrisy? Should we reject criticism of > China, just because someone who also does wrong joins in the > criticism? Certainly not! What we should do is criticize the US > _also_. > > Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in > country B. > > How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly > licensing of proprietary (IPR) > > I agree with the sentiment, but it is not good to use the term "IPR". > It doesn't refer to anythin coherent. What it SEEMS to mean is a > false picture of actual laws, and a false idea of their motives. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html. > > > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct > -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant Angola Liaison Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ ???????????? -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant Angola Liaison Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ ???????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20091118/3b98ee69/attachment.htm From rusdiah at rad.net.id Wed Nov 18 13:57:42 2009 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:57:42 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: <555132.7490.qm@web110311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> <555132.7490.qm@web110311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B03EF46.4090601@rad.net.id> rrusdiah at yahoo.com wrote: > There is a saying... 'the boss is always right'... so is hegemony, > always right... because they make the rule so their saying is always > right :-) > > so regarding IPR, priority watch list, censorship, wiretapping... if > you are the boss then you may with reason of course,... if not,then > you are against the rule :-) > > i agree with 'Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of > another kind in > country B' > > rr - apwkomitel > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Richard Stallman > *To:* rusdiah > *Cc:* robin at IPJUSTICE.ORG; atf2007 at dgroups.org; > harris38 at netvigator.com; rrusdiah at yahoo.com; telecentres at wsis-cs.org; > jtarawe at bario.net; NCUC-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU; wsis-pct at fsfeurope.org > *Sent:* Wed, November 18, 2009 7:10:54 PM > *Subject:* Re: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is > Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event > rattled by UN Security Office > > Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has > censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... > > Not all countries block access to particular Internet sites. (The US > does not.) It is true that many countries have such policies or are > trying to establish them. This is an injustice no matter where it is > done, and no matter what the excuse. > > Obama does not favor an "open internet". Outside of countries such as > China, the nastiest form of restriction of the internet is the War on > Sharing, which Obama supports. So he is being hypocritical here. > > How should we respond to his hypocrisy? Should we reject criticism of > China, just because someone who also does wrong joins in the > criticism? Certainly not! What we should do is criticize the US > _also_. > > Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in > country B. > > How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly > licensing of proprietary (IPR) > > I agree with the sentiment, but it is not good to use the term "IPR". > It doesn't refer to anythin coherent. What it SEEMS to mean is a > false picture of actual laws, and a false idea of their motives. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20091118/cc06ea1d/attachment.htm From correia.rui at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 13:41:20 2009 From: correia.rui at gmail.com (Rui Correia) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:41:20 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> Message-ID: In Portugal, the police wiretapped the Prime Minister's phone in the course of an investigation about corporate corruption. I haven't been following the case closely, but if that is ndeed the case, then well done for having the guts! More on the case, if interested: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_Oculta Regards, Rui 2009/11/18 Richard Stallman > Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has > censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... > > Not all countries block access to particular Internet sites. (The US > does not.) It is true that many countries have such policies or are > trying to establish them. This is an injustice no matter where it is > done, and no matter what the excuse. > > Obama does not favor an "open internet". Outside of countries such as > China, the nastiest form of restriction of the internet is the War on > Sharing, which Obama supports. So he is being hypocritical here. > > How should we respond to his hypocrisy? Should we reject criticism of > China, just because someone who also does wrong joins in the > criticism? Certainly not! What we should do is criticize the US > _also_. > > Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in > country B. > > How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly > licensing of proprietary (IPR) > > I agree with the sentiment, but it is not good to use the term "IPR". > It doesn't refer to anythin coherent. What it SEEMS to mean is a > false picture of actual laws, and a false idea of their motives. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html. > > > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct > -- ________________________________________________ Rui Correia Advocacy, Human Rights, Media and Language Consultant Angola Liaison Consultant 2 Cutten St Horison Roodepoort-Johannesburg, South Africa Tel/ Fax (+27-11) 766-4336 Mobile (+27) (0) 84-498-6838 _______________ ???????????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20091118/e26a9d90/attachment.htm From rrusdiah at yahoo.com Wed Nov 18 13:39:47 2009 From: rrusdiah at yahoo.com (rrusdiah at yahoo.com) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 04:39:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office In-Reply-To: References: <701af9f70911160111i171c48fetc1e0d4f2366fda31@mail.gmail.com> <5FB3771F-F90E-40AB-9873-D4CBD34F3712@ipjustice.org> <4B0228EC.5060202@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <555132.7490.qm@web110311.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> there is a joke... the boss is always right... so is hegemony, always right... because they make the rule so their saying is always right :-) so regarding IPR, priority watch list, censorship, wiretapping... if you are the boss then you may with reason of course,... if not,then you are against the rule :-) i agree with 'Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in country B' rr - apwkomitel ________________________________ From: Richard Stallman To: rusdiah Cc: robin at IPJUSTICE.ORG; atf2007 at dgroups.org; harris38 at netvigator.com; rrusdiah at yahoo.com; telecentres at wsis-cs.org; jtarawe at bario.net; NCUC-DISCUSS at LISTSERV.SYR.EDU; wsis-pct at fsfeurope.org Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:10:54 PM Subject: Re: [Wsis-pct] Obama calls for free Internet in China... is Internet really free afterall ? : For Information: IGF 2009 event rattled by UN Security Office Internet is not as free after all, every country in the world has censorship policy and wiretapping policy of its own... Not all countries block access to particular Internet sites. (The US does not.) It is true that many countries have such policies or are trying to establish them. This is an injustice no matter where it is done, and no matter what the excuse. Obama does not favor an "open internet". Outside of countries such as China, the nastiest form of restriction of the internet is the War on Sharing, which Obama supports. So he is being hypocritical here. How should we respond to his hypocrisy? Should we reject criticism of China, just because someone who also does wrong joins in the criticism? Certainly not! What we should do is criticize the US _also_. Evil of one kind in country A does not excuse evil of another kind in country B. How about also free software movement... freeing people from monopoly licensing of proprietary (IPR) I agree with the sentiment, but it is not good to use the term "IPR". It doesn't refer to anythin coherent. What it SEEMS to mean is a false picture of actual laws, and a false idea of their motives. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20091118/60ba14c5/attachment.htm