From rms at gnu.org Sun Mar 1 13:20:53 2009 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard M Stallman) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 07:20:53 -0500 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Global Patronage, a scheme for supporting the arts In-Reply-To: <20090228150832.00d897cd@lauren> (message from Federico Heinz on Sat, 28 Feb 2009 15:08:32 -0200) References: <20090228150832.00d897cd@lauren> Message-ID: > And it may also facilitate winning the freedom to share. I don't think I understand how. Are you thinking that with such a proposal artists will stop pushing for bad laws? We hope that legislators will choose this rather than bad laws. From fheinz at vialibre.org.ar Sun Mar 1 14:03:36 2009 From: fheinz at vialibre.org.ar (Federico Heinz) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:03:36 -0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Global Patronage, a scheme for supporting the arts In-Reply-To: References: <20090228150832.00d897cd@lauren> Message-ID: <20090301110336.1dbc2fc0@lauren> On 01/03/2009, Richard M Stallman wrote: > We hope that legislators will choose this rather than bad laws. I agree that this proposal is not as bad as others, but it I don't think it qualifies as good, and I don't see myself in the business of promoting something simply because it's not as bad as the worst-case scenario. Fede From fheinz at vialibre.org.ar Sun Mar 1 14:33:50 2009 From: fheinz at vialibre.org.ar (Federico Heinz) Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 11:33:50 -0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] What makes authors so special In-Reply-To: <49A9F4F8.9040903@free.fr> References: <49A99077.5090800@mdpi.net> <20090228195845.6da04686@lauren> <49A9F4F8.9040903@free.fr> Message-ID: <20090301113350.6e7f4c9e@lauren> On 01/03/2009, Christian LAVIGNE wrote: > Sorry to say that, but Mr. Federico HEINZ doesn't understand at all what > is the situation of the artist today. Maybe I just understand it differently. I don't think that a pissing contest pn who understands "the situation of the artist" better will do this debate any good. > In his answer, Federico seems to forget my reference to the Universal > Declaration of Human Rights. In particular: > Article 27. (2) Everyone has the right to the protection of the moral > and material interests resulting from any scientific, literary or > artistic production of which he is the author. I do not forget it. I just note that the article refers merely to "moral and material interests" but it does not say *what* those are. Some people argue that those interests must be as broad and encompassing as possible, while others (like me) argue for making them very narrow and limited. I understand how you, as an author, would argue for a broad interpretation of that paragraph. Do you understand how I (also an author) would argue for a narrow one? > In the field of music and cinema, the major companies and the trade > unions are so powerful that they are currently imposing their views for > the laws regarding the authors rights on the Internet. Is it for the > profit of all the concerned artists ? Certainly not. Ask to the French > musicians if they are all satisfied by the SACEM, which is their > copyright collecting agencies! Ask to the young artists if they feel to > be well represented by the major companies! Moreover, some of the "show > biz" unions disagree with the DRM, and with the only repressive author > rights management planed for the Internet. If you expect me to disagree with the above paragraph, I must disappoint you. Of course the collecting agencies and the "industry" are corrupt organizations living on the work of others, and I cannot wait for the day when they disappear from the face of the earth. It's just that giving them money to manage as Francis suggests, doesn't sound to me like a good way to kill them. > But the comparison with the steel or the automobile workers can > also be used here: Federico can't ignore that today many governments > have their plan to give a boost to these economical sectors. Yes. As a very debatable temporary measure. Global Patronage is at least as debatable, but it has the aspiration of becoming a permanent fixture, not just a times-are-bad stopgap measure that will go away once things (hopefully) get better. > I don't know any plan for boosting the culture and the creation. Don't you? Have you looked? That's weird, because even here in Argentina, there is public money available for culture (it always goes to the same few artists, as always, but the money is there). I know Obama's original proposal included money for the National Endowment of the Arts, but I don't know whether it survived Congress. > [...] It seems to the people that all the contents available on the Internet > are for free [...] It's too late for changing the minds. It's not just late to change their minds: it is something we shouldn't even be looking into doing. Why should we? You don't want to offer your works on the net for free? Then don't. > I know a friend, musician, who prefers to give for free his music on the > Web...and to do other jobs for earning money. Do you know, Mr. HEINZ, a > diurnal steel worker who is also a night watchman for keeping his job in > the steel industry ? Yes, I do. And please, let me state for the record that it never ceases to amaze me how educated, intelligent people from the US and Europe are so completely unable to imagine a different reality than that their own, privileged society. > And, for replying to your question: "what makes you think that this new > international network of collecting agencies will be any better than the > previous ones?", I will say that I believe in the progress In other words, you just hope that it will just be better this time if we try again. I though only programmers were prone to this kind of delusion. Progress, when it occurs, happens because people do things differently. What will be different this time, exactly? What is the organizational breakthrough that will turn the collecting agencies from useless leeches into useful organizations? Fede From rms at gnu.org Sun Mar 1 22:29:14 2009 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard M Stallman) Date: Sun, 01 Mar 2009 16:29:14 -0500 Subject: [Wsis-pct] What makes authors so special In-Reply-To: <49A9F4F8.9040903@free.fr> (message from Christian LAVIGNE on Sun, 01 Mar 2009 03:37:44 +0100) References: <49A9F4F8.9040903@free.fr> Message-ID: It seems to the people that all the contents=20 available on the Internet are for free (I know only 2 kinds of websites=20 which can ask successfully for a payment: the pornos, and some=20 documentary/newspaper sites). Some musicians are succeeding, too. Please don't use the terms "protect" and "piracy". They are propaganda for the enemy. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for more explanation. From muguet at mdpi.net Fri Mar 20 10:05:12 2009 From: muguet at mdpi.net (Dr. Francis MUGUET) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:05:12 +0100 Subject: [Wsis-pct] =?utf-8?q?Salon_de_l=27Internet_=3A_Voeux=2C_Miini-par?= =?utf-8?q?lement=2C_Internet_des_Objets_et_M=C3=A9c=C3=A9nat_Global?= Message-ID: <49C35C48.7060708@mdpi.net> / Only in French, sorry, local event in Paris. Bonjour Pour tous ceux ? Paris.... mes excuses pour cette annonce tardive, tout simplement trop de listes ? penser... Francis / * * 20-22 Mars 2009, Paris, France * * Vendredi 20 Mars 2009, 18H-19H Mini-Parlement Le Mini-Parlement, ce sont des parlementaires invit?s par la Soci?t? Civile, ? d?battre entre eux et avec la Soci?t? Civile. Ce Mini-Parlement se situera juste ? la confluence de deux faits # marquants de la Soci?t? de l'Information en France : Le premier Salon grand-public de l'histoire de l'Internet. # Les travaux parlementaires concernant le projet de loi Cr?ation et Internet Intervenants : Martine Billard, Jean-Pierre Brard, Nicolas Dupont-Aignan, Jean-Pierre Bozzone, avec comme grands t?moins : Pascal Colin, Jacques Perriault, Christian Lavigne. Vendredi 20 Mars 2009, 19H-20H Voeux de l'Internet Les Voeux de l'Internet est une tradition inclusive depuis 2004, qui vise ? apporter de la convivialit? et de l'humanit? ? la Soci?t? de l'Information. Les E-Toiles d'Or distinguent dans diverses cat?gories (art, politique, ?conomie, soci?t? civile et pays) , des personnalit?s qui ont contribu? par des actes ou des prises de position aux formidables enjeux de l'Internet et de la Soci?t? de l'information. Samedi 21 Mars Mars 2009, 14H-15H Table Ronde Internet des Objets Cet ?v?nement grand public a pour objet de d?battre en interaction avec les visiteurs du Salon, des promesses et des dangers de l'Internet des Objets. Intervenants : Bernard Benhamou, Pierre Georget, Chantal Lebrument, Fran?oise Massit-Foll?a, Francis Muguet, Louis Pouzin. Dimanche 22 Mars 2009, 14H-15H Le M?c?nat Global : une alternative ? l'HADOPI ? Une approche philosophique du financement des oeuvres num?riques bas?e sur l'appr?ciation et non pas la consommation. Chacun devient m?c?ne de ses artistes, et auteurs au travers d'une appr?ciation fine et librement exerc? par chaque internaute en attribuant des parts d'une somme fixe contractuelle ? leurs oeuvres. Cette approche est naturellement adapt?e aux oeuvres num?riques contrairement ? une baguette de pain, car elles permettent un processus appr?ciatif non destructeur. Le sch?ma juridique s'appuie sur des disposions d'ordre public dans des relations contractuelles et permet d'?viter l'obstacle juridique de l'exception aux droits exclusifs des auteurs; qui affecte la licence globale. Enfin le co?t de la mise en oeuvre est tr?s inf?rieure tant ? l'HADOPI qu'? la licence globale, car il n'y a nul besoin de surveillance liberticide des r?seaux, et au contraire les appr?ciations des internautes procurent des sondages fiables. Au niveau op?rationnel, il suffira de rajouter une application sur la console de gestion des abonn?s sur le site intranet ( pas sur le routeur ! ) de chaque FAI. L'approche du M?c?nat Global n'est pas rigide, elle est pragmatique, et appelle ? une phase d'exp?rimentation. Pour clarifier un point important : cette approche, nullement limit?e aux oeuvres non commerciales, permettra l'?closion de nouveaux business models o? de nouveaux talents pourront se r?v?ler, en se concentrant sur la qualit? de leurs oeuvres, en faisant confiance ? l'appr?ciation des internautes, et en se d?gageant de la contrainte souvent trop ?touffante de trouver un mode de financement inadapt? car bas? sur la consommation. * * -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20090320/3d53d6ca/attachment-0001.htm -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 15003 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20090320/3d53d6ca/attachment-0001.jpeg -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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