From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 1 00:31:07 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:31:07 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Net Neutrality in danger in the USA In-Reply-To: <465E3992.2000908@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah rudi on Thu, 31 May 2007 09:57:22 +0700) References: <465CCC44.1070602@mdpi.net> <465E3992.2000908@rad.net.id> Message-ID: We agree with richard stallman... talking about Net neutrality and Intenret... it should also include software and IPR... "IPR" isn't even a coherent topic -- so I am not sure what it would mean to "include IPR" in this debate, let alone whether I agree. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html for an explanation of why the term "intellectual property" should never be used. Can you express your meaning without use of that term? Then it might be clear. From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 1 05:59:45 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 23:59:45 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Net Neutrality in danger in the USA In-Reply-To: <465F0ABD.6020909@knowprose.com> (message from Taran Rampersad on Thu, 31 May 2007 13:49:49 -0400) References: <465CCC44.1070602@mdpi.net> <465E6E26.7040100@knowprose.com> <465F0ABD.6020909@knowprose.com> Message-ID: Let's put it this way: You lose network neutrality, you lose a big step for Free Software. If the network is compromised, we're back to the sneakernet. Please do not exaggerate. Both issues are important, and you have not convinced me that network neutrality is more important than free software. Is ego so important? Such needs to impress others might be painful for the prostate. What you see is commitment to a cause, so that I will not drop it to take up the other cause you support. Your name calling is nasty and wrong. Support Network Neutrality or not, but I see no need to demean it simply because of a 24 year old campaign which is the center of one's universe. You don't seem to have actually read my messages. From cnd at knowprose.com Fri Jun 1 07:08:59 2007 From: cnd at knowprose.com (Taran Rampersad) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:08:59 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Net Neutrality in danger in the USA In-Reply-To: References: <465CCC44.1070602@mdpi.net> <465E6E26.7040100@knowprose.com> <465F0ABD.6020909@knowprose.com> Message-ID: <465FA9EB.4020605@knowprose.com> Richard Stallman wrote: > Let's put it this way: You lose network neutrality, you lose a big step > for Free Software. If the network is compromised, we're back to the > sneakernet. > > Please do not exaggerate. Both issues are important, and you have not > convinced me that network neutrality is more important than free > software. > Please do not exaggerate or put words into my mouth, as you are wont to do. What I said is quite clear. You have expressed quite clearly the opposite stance to what you have said mine is - you have said Free Software is more important. I have said that they are both important. If you missed that, perhaps it is because you seek opposition. > Is ego so important? Such needs to impress others might be > painful for the prostate. > > What you see is commitment to a cause, so that I will not drop it > to take up the other cause you support. Your name calling is nasty > and wrong. > I didn't ask you to drop your cause, now did I? > Support Network Neutrality or not, > but I see no need to demean it simply because of a 24 year old campaign > which is the center of one's universe. > > You don't seem to have actually read my messages. > Oh, I have. But your responses have been simply about how they should join you. Rather amusing, RMS. I'm done with this thread because (1) getting bogged down into oppositional arguments are what I tried to avoid and (2) After 24 years, I believe you have forgotten that the world has other problems which are EQUALLY important - if not more. Now when you can consider that Network Neutrality is an issue which the FSF could consider strategic to spreading Free Software... well, maybe you'll have something. Otherwise it's the same old 24 year old rhetoric... and here's the funny thing. You're in the United States. Francis is the one who originally posted about this. When I want to know what is going on in the United States, I suppose I'll ask the nearest Frenchman. :-) L8r. -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago cnd at knowprose.com http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ "Criticize by creating." ? Michelangelo "The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine." - Nikola Tesla From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 1 19:54:41 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:54:41 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Net Neutrality in danger in the USA In-Reply-To: <465FA9EB.4020605@knowprose.com> (message from Taran Rampersad on Fri, 01 Jun 2007 01:08:59 -0400) References: <465CCC44.1070602@mdpi.net> <465E6E26.7040100@knowprose.com> <465F0ABD.6020909@knowprose.com> <465FA9EB.4020605@knowprose.com> Message-ID: > What you see is commitment to a cause, so that I will not drop it > to take up the other cause you support. Your name calling is nasty > and wrong. > I didn't ask you to drop your cause, now did I? More precisely, you said that the FSF should drop its own cause (unless the Net Neutrality campaigners graciously "consider it possible" for the FSF to continue to talk about it). That is a contemptuous way to talk to someone, and you shouldn't be surprised that your suggestion isn't adopted. After 24 years, I believe you have forgotten that the world has other problems which are EQUALLY important - if not more. Lots of causes are as important as the free software movement, and they have their own organizations. The Free Software Foundation is the organization that has the mission of championing free software, and it will continue to do so. From rusdiah at rad.net.id Sat Jun 2 05:50:35 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 10:50:35 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] software/license issues ? Net Neutrality in danger in the USA In-Reply-To: References: <465CCC44.1070602@mdpi.net> <465E3992.2000908@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <4660E90B.6020304@rad.net.id> Richard Stallman wrote: > We agree with richard stallman... talking about Net neutrality and > Intenret... it should also include software and IPR... > > "IPR" isn't even a coherent topic -- so I am not sure what it would > mean to "include IPR" in this debate, let alone whether I agree. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html for an explanation > of why the term "intellectual property" should never be used. > > Can you express your meaning without use of that term? Then it might > be clear. yes, i think i used the wrong words, because we are preoccupied facing many law enforcement issues (raid by police) on software to SME ( cybercafe) in Indonesia. I should have said IPR issues sometimes are used for vendor using law enforcement to force people to buy license software... forgetting about affordability and also forgetting to socialize alternative software such as GPL software that are also available... although lack of popularity compared to these proprietary licensed expensive software. I should have used the term Free software movement and OSS FYI: We have to pay USD 85 for using license O/S ( XP Home) but if there are more than 10 PC installed must use license XP Pro for USD 140,- how about other applications licenses , that must also be legal from the member of BSA ? I hope this time I express correctly our concern on net neutrality that should also consider the problem of software , license and affordability issues. rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel (http://www.apwkomitel.org) / indonesia From muguet at mdpi.net Fri Jun 8 02:11:56 2007 From: muguet at mdpi.net (Dr. Francis MUGUET) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 02:11:56 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] Message-ID: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> Dear friends I did not have time to comment on the recent exchange between Richard and Taran. I will later, if I have time, because it raises the question of the relative importances of various issues. I will just say it is quite inappropriate, even jokingly, to oppose "a french" and Richard. Richard speaks extremely good French and is always welcome in France. There are extremely good and valuable persons in the US, it is simply their current administration that is so bad and this could be said also for many countries. For now : this collusion of the UN in Africa with Microsoft must be strongly denounced and this is really BAD : -------- Original Message -------- Subject: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 11:01:47 -0400 From: Reply-To: unnews at un.org Organization: United Nations To: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA New York, Jun 7 2007 11:00AM A United Nations-backed forum aiming to spread the use of information and communication technology (ICT) in West and Central Africa kicked off today in Ouagadougou, Burkina Faso. The two-day meeting, called the ICT Best Practices Forum, was organized by the UN Economic Commission for Africa (<"http://www.uneca.org">ECA), the Government of Burkina Faso, the African Development Bank and Microsoft. This forum is an element of the African Information Society Initiative, and will allow Governments, donors, institutions and other groups from the region to share their experiences. Government leaders, as well as representatives from international financial organizations, donors, academia and non-governmental organizations (NGOs), are expected to attend. According to a recent European Union meeting, if all of the innovations in ICT from all African countries were to be compiled in one country, it would be the 12th most technology advanced nation in the world. This finding highlights how African countries have much to learn from both each other and from nations worldwide. It is hoped that by providing an opportunity to exchange experiences and share successes, the high level of interest in technology in addressed development issues in African can be harnessed. The forum, which will be replicated in East and Southern Africa over a one-year period, also aims to enhance the effectiveness of Government institutions, as well as allow technology solutions to be diffused in the region. Microsoft, in concert with its partners, will create a ?best practices? website tailored to Africa to underscore issues discussed at the forums. 2007-06-07 00:00:00.000 ___________________ For more details go to UN News Centre at http://www.un.org/news To listen to news and in-depth programmes from UN Radio go to: http://radio.un.org/ _______________________________ To change your profile or unsubscribe go to: http://www.un.org/apps/news/email/ -- ------------------------------------------------------ Francis F. MUGUET Ph.D MDPI Foundation Open Access Journals Associate Publisher http://www.mdpi.org http://www.mdpi.net muguet at mdpi.org muguet at mdpi.net ENSTA Paris, France KNIS lab. Director "Knowledge Networks & Information Society" (KNIS) muguet at ensta.fr http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet World Summit On the Information Society (WSIS) Civil Society Working Groups Scientific Information : http://www.wsis-si.org chair Patents & Copyrights : http://www.wsis-pct.org co-chair Financing Mechanismns : http://www.wsis-finance.org web UNMSP project : http://www.unmsp.org WTIS initiative: http://www.wtis.org ------------------------------------------------------ From rms at gnu.org Fri Jun 8 16:24:52 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 10:24:52 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> (muguet@mdpi.net) References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> Message-ID: The question is, where is a place that we can effectively protest this? We cannot mobilize many people in Burkina Faso, which is small and inaccessible compared with most African countries. From rusdiah at rad.net.id Sat Jun 9 04:53:51 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 09:53:51 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] INFO - conference in New York GPOD ( global partnership overseas development) In-Reply-To: <772b48db0706080617yebae1c2p66399837fe104eca@mail.gmail.com> References: <772b48db0706080617yebae1c2p66399837fe104eca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466A163F.7040805@rad.net.id> Dear friends, Is there such a conference in Quebec (end of June 2007) and NewYork ( early july 2007) ? The organizer is GPOD ( global partnership on overseas development) The organizer is willing to pay air transport, hotel, accomodations and per diem, but we have to transfer first euro 290. Any informations , please send ASAP. Rgds, rudi rusdiah The GPOD, Organizing Committee wrote: > Attn: Mr. Rudi Rusdiah - Chairman > APWKomitel > Email: rusdiah at rad.net.id > Indonesia > > Dear sir, > > We write to acknowledge the receipt of your message in which you have > indicated your interest in the NY seminar. Please note that apart from > training sessions which are similar for the both conferences taking > places > at Quebec - Canada, and New York - USA consecutively, there are also > slight > differences in which should be taking note by delegates. > > At Quebec - Canada Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD) > will > set up an outlined criteria for reviewing and approving proposals from > NGOs, > starting with those submitted by the delegates attending the Quebec's > Conference. Also at Quebec - Canada, there will be sessions in which the > Global Partnership for Overseas Development Board of Directors will be > able > to meet and discuss personally with each delegates, such opportunities > provides high chance for the delegate's proposals to be approved > instantly > for funding. > > At New York USA, the Board of Directors of GPOD will have special > sessions > with international partners and donors. It is also at New York Conference > that fundings for approved projects will be released. Though the Board of > Directors of GPOD may not be able to meet personally with delegates > during > the conference at New York, there will be a dedicated follow-up with each > delegates and their respective organizations for project fundings and > partnership. > > Best regards, > > Mrs. Anne-Marie Sinclair > Interpreter/Translator > Organizing Committee > Intl Registration Office > ============================= > THE GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP FOR OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT > GPOD INTL HEAD OFFICE > 2675 Promenade Queensview Drive > Qu?bec, K4B 9KE, Canada > PHONE: +1(267) 220-9830 > FAX: +1(267) 430-0723 > EMAIL: global.partners at canada.com > registration at theglobalpartnerships.org > Website: www.theglobalpartnerships.org > QUEBEC - CANADA From mgurst at vcn.bc.ca Sat Jun 9 15:57:00 2007 From: mgurst at vcn.bc.ca (Michael Gurstein) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 06:57:00 -0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] INFO - conference in New York GPOD ( global partnership overseas development) Message-ID: <000101c7aa9e$1dc34680$a1ffff0a@michael78xnoln> Via Google: http://www.commonwealth-planners.org/latest.html 07/11/2006 ALERT! Scam Conference Targeted Towards CAP Members Recently, a conference invitation was sent to CAP members. The sponsoring body, Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD), invited members to an 'INTL MICROFINANCE CONFERENCE' in Quebec, Canada and Oxford, United Kingdom. Please be aware that this is NOT a legitimate conference or organisation, and members should not respond to their emails or send them any money. The supposed address is a real one, but in Ottawa not in Quebec City! (Via Google Maps). MG > Dear friends, > > Is there such a conference in Quebec (end of June 2007) and NewYork ( > early july 2007) ? > > The organizer is GPOD ( global partnership on overseas development) > > The organizer is willing to pay air transport, hotel, accomodations > and per diem, but we have to transfer first euro 290. Any informations > , please send ASAP. > > Rgds, rudi rusdiah > > > The GPOD, Organizing Committee wrote: >> Attn: Mr. Rudi Rusdiah - Chairman >> APWKomitel >> Email: rusdiah at rad.net.id >> Indonesia >> >> Dear sir, >> >> We write to acknowledge the receipt of your message in which you have >> indicated your interest in the NY seminar. Please note that apart >> from training sessions which are similar for the both conferences >> taking places at Quebec - Canada, and New York - USA consecutively, >> there are also slight >> differences in which should be taking note by delegates. >> >> At Quebec - Canada Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD) >> will set up an outlined criteria for reviewing and approving >> proposals from NGOs, >> starting with those submitted by the delegates attending the Quebec's >> Conference. Also at Quebec - Canada, there will be sessions in which the >> Global Partnership for Overseas Development Board of Directors will be >> able >> to meet and discuss personally with each delegates, such opportunities >> provides high chance for the delegate's proposals to be approved >> instantly >> for funding. >> >> At New York USA, the Board of Directors of GPOD will have special >> sessions with international partners and donors. It is also at New >> York Conference >> that fundings for approved projects will be released. Though the Board >> of >> Directors of GPOD may not be able to meet personally with delegates >> during >> the conference at New York, there will be a dedicated follow-up with >> each >> delegates and their respective organizations for project fundings and >> partnership. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Mrs. Anne-Marie Sinclair >> Interpreter/Translator >> Organizing Committee >> Intl Registration Office >> ============================= >> THE GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP FOR OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT >> GPOD INTL HEAD OFFICE >> 2675 Promenade Queensview Drive >> Qu?bec, K4B 9KE, Canada >> PHONE: +1(267) 220-9830 >> FAX: +1(267) 430-0723 >> EMAIL: global.partners at canada.com >> registration at theglobalpartnerships.org >> Website: www.theglobalpartnerships.org >> QUEBEC - CANADA > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct > > > !DSPAM:2676,466a1684285501990639234! > From rusdiah at rad.net.id Sat Jun 9 13:52:55 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 18:52:55 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] watch out[atf2007] scam INFO - conference in New York GPOD ( global partnership overseas development) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <466A9497.9020101@rad.net.id> Thank you michael for your informations, I already has the feeling that this is a fake offer since the offer is so good to be true, they will pay for airticket, hotel, per diem ( EURO 300 per day) and we dont need to do anything ( write abstracts or paper) :-) on top of it... they will courrier laptop for each applicant, unfortunately we have to transfer in advanced Euro 290... I google such conference and they charge others approx. Euro 400. I wonder how many were the victims of such scams. Please others from developing countries be aware of such scams and forward to other mailing list to prevent from further loss and victims. Regards, Rudi Rusdiah - APWKomitel / Indonesia Michael Gurstein wrote: > Via Google: http://www.commonwealth-planners.org/latest.html > > 07/11/2006 ALERT! Scam Conference Targeted Towards CAP Members Recently, > a conference invitation was sent to CAP members. The sponsoring body, > Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD), invited members to > an 'INTL MICROFINANCE CONFERENCE' in Quebec, Canada and Oxford, United > Kingdom. Please be aware that this is NOT a legitimate conference or > organisation, and members should not respond to their emails or send > them any money. > > The supposed address is a real one, but in Ottawa not in Quebec City! > (Via Google Maps). > > MG > > > >> Dear friends, >> >> Is there such a conference in Quebec (end of June 2007) and NewYork ( >> early july 2007) ? >> >> The organizer is GPOD ( global partnership on overseas development) >> >> The organizer is willing to pay air transport, hotel, accomodations >> and per diem, but we have to transfer first euro 290. Any informations >> > > >> , please send ASAP. >> >> Rgds, rudi rusdiah >> >> >> The GPOD, Organizing Committee wrote: >> >>> Attn: Mr. Rudi Rusdiah - Chairman >>> APWKomitel >>> Email: rusdiah at rad.net.id >>> Indonesia >>> >>> Dear sir, >>> >>> We write to acknowledge the receipt of your message in which you have >>> indicated your interest in the NY seminar. Please note that apart >>> from training sessions which are similar for the both conferences >>> taking places at Quebec - Canada, and New York - USA consecutively, >>> there are also slight >>> differences in which should be taking note by delegates. >>> >>> At Quebec - Canada Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD) >>> will set up an outlined criteria for reviewing and approving >>> proposals from NGOs, >>> starting with those submitted by the delegates attending the Quebec's >>> Conference. Also at Quebec - Canada, there will be sessions in which >>> > the > >>> Global Partnership for Overseas Development Board of Directors will >>> > be > >>> able >>> to meet and discuss personally with each delegates, such >>> > opportunities > >>> provides high chance for the delegate's proposals to be approved >>> instantly >>> for funding. >>> >>> At New York USA, the Board of Directors of GPOD will have special >>> sessions with international partners and donors. It is also at New >>> York Conference >>> that fundings for approved projects will be released. Though the >>> > Board > >>> of >>> Directors of GPOD may not be able to meet personally with delegates >>> during >>> the conference at New York, there will be a dedicated follow-up with >>> each >>> delegates and their respective organizations for project fundings and >>> partnership. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Mrs. Anne-Marie Sinclair >>> Interpreter/Translator >>> Organizing Committee >>> Intl Registration Office >>> ============================= >>> THE GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP FOR OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT >>> GPOD INTL HEAD OFFICE >>> 2675 Promenade Queensview Drive >>> Qu?bec, K4B 9KE, Canada >>> PHONE: +1(267) 220-9830 >>> FAX: +1(267) 430-0723 >>> EMAIL: global.partners at canada.com >>> registration at theglobalpartnerships.org >>> Website: www.theglobalpartnerships.org >>> QUEBEC - CANADA >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> WSIS-PCT mailing list >> WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org >> https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct >> >> >> !DSPAM:2676,466a1684285501990639234! >> >> > > > Dgroups is a joint initiative of Bellanet, DFID, Hivos, ICA, ICCO, IICD, OneWorld, UNAIDS and World Bank > --- You are currently subscribed to atf2007 as: rusdiah at rad.net.id > To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-atf2007-1063435X at dgroups.org > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20070609/04105edf/attachment.htm From mgurst at vcn.bc.ca Sat Jun 9 12:38:18 2007 From: mgurst at vcn.bc.ca (mgurst at vcn.bc.ca) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 03:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Wsis-pct] INFO - conference in New York GPOD ( global partnership overseas development) In-Reply-To: <466A163F.7040805@rad.net.id> References: <772b48db0706080617yebae1c2p66399837fe104eca@mail.gmail.com> <466A163F.7040805@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <1392.66.135.114.72.1181385498.squirrel@mail.vcn.bc.ca> Via Google: http://www.commonwealth-planners.org/latest.html 07/11/2006 ALERT! Scam Conference Targeted Towards CAP Members Recently, a conference invitation was sent to CAP members. The sponsoring body, Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD), invited members to an 'INTL MICROFINANCE CONFERENCE' in Quebec, Canada and Oxford, United Kingdom. Please be aware that this is NOT a legitimate conference or organisation, and members should not respond to their emails or send them any money. MG > Dear friends, > > Is there such a conference in Quebec (end of June 2007) and NewYork ( > early july 2007) ? > > The organizer is GPOD ( global partnership on overseas development) > > The organizer is willing to pay air transport, hotel, accomodations and > per diem, but we have to transfer first euro 290. > Any informations , please send ASAP. > > Rgds, rudi rusdiah > > > The GPOD, Organizing Committee wrote: >> Attn: Mr. Rudi Rusdiah - Chairman >> APWKomitel >> Email: rusdiah at rad.net.id >> Indonesia >> >> Dear sir, >> >> We write to acknowledge the receipt of your message in which you have >> indicated your interest in the NY seminar. Please note that apart from >> training sessions which are similar for the both conferences taking >> places >> at Quebec - Canada, and New York - USA consecutively, there are also >> slight >> differences in which should be taking note by delegates. >> >> At Quebec - Canada Global Partnership for Overseas Development (GPOD) >> will >> set up an outlined criteria for reviewing and approving proposals from >> NGOs, >> starting with those submitted by the delegates attending the Quebec's >> Conference. Also at Quebec - Canada, there will be sessions in which the >> Global Partnership for Overseas Development Board of Directors will be >> able >> to meet and discuss personally with each delegates, such opportunities >> provides high chance for the delegate's proposals to be approved >> instantly >> for funding. >> >> At New York USA, the Board of Directors of GPOD will have special >> sessions >> with international partners and donors. It is also at New York >> Conference >> that fundings for approved projects will be released. Though the Board >> of >> Directors of GPOD may not be able to meet personally with delegates >> during >> the conference at New York, there will be a dedicated follow-up with >> each >> delegates and their respective organizations for project fundings and >> partnership. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Mrs. Anne-Marie Sinclair >> Interpreter/Translator >> Organizing Committee >> Intl Registration Office >> ============================= >> THE GLOBAL PARTNERSHIP FOR OVERSEAS DEVELOPMENT >> GPOD INTL HEAD OFFICE >> 2675 Promenade Queensview Drive >> Qu?bec, K4B 9KE, Canada >> PHONE: +1(267) 220-9830 >> FAX: +1(267) 430-0723 >> EMAIL: global.partners at canada.com >> registration at theglobalpartnerships.org >> Website: www.theglobalpartnerships.org >> QUEBEC - CANADA > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct > > > !DSPAM:2676,466a1684285501990639234! > From rms at gnu.org Sat Jun 9 22:23:42 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 16:23:42 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] INFO - conference in New York GPOD ( global partnership overseas development) In-Reply-To: <466A163F.7040805@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah rudi on Sat, 09 Jun 2007 09:53:51 +0700) References: <772b48db0706080617yebae1c2p66399837fe104eca@mail.gmail.com> <466A163F.7040805@rad.net.id> Message-ID: The organizer is willing to pay air transport, hotel, accomodations and per diem, but we have to transfer first euro 290. That sounds like a variant on the Nigerian scam. From marimo at ict.co.zw Tue Jun 19 17:59:15 2007 From: marimo at ict.co.zw (Moses Marimo) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:59:15 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] Message-ID: <1182268755.7617.1.camel@marimo-laptop> > The question is, where is a place that we can effectively protest > this? We cannot mobilize many people in Burkina Faso, which is small > and inaccessible compared with most African countries. I do not think protesting will solve anything. Microsoft is simply being very pro-active.Their predatory marketing and pricing techniqus seems to be working and I think they will always work for as long as there are poor nations. Will it be logical for UN, which is struggling to assist Africa to turn down a Microsoft offer to "sponsor"??? There is this talk of PPP - Private Public Partnership. Tripple P is a big issue in Africa and the Microsoft strategy falls neatly into that puzzle. Why this is like so is very simple. Microsoft simply goes to under funded institutions and governments and offer material and technical support. For material support, even a couple of worthless CDs can do the trick.The bigger part of Africa is still struggling for basic amenities. They will obviously jump at such an offer. When I talk of poverty, I know exactly what that means. Zimbabwe has a monthly inflation rate of at least 50% and annual inflation rate of at least 4,500% - the highest in the world.(this is not fiction!). It is not realistic to just preach Free software and end there in a country like Zimbabwe. To make matters worse, Free software groups are not taken serious when they come with their software copied on cheap and non-original CDs. It may sound trivial but its actually a big issue. We also have politicians who want to appear to the general public as being in the forefront of bringing direct foreign investment. These guys in Africa are directly involved in deciding the destiny of educational institutions. For example, I did not have any success in distributing Free and Open Source Software until I received 100 copies of Ubuntu from Canonical. The response was tremendous. I was simply overwhelmed. Microsoft seem to have captured these nitty gritties and are simply exploiting them. I do not blame Microsoft for jumping at opportunities in Africa although I am fully aware about the negative side-effects of monopolies. eg Vendor locking and stuff like that. These guys want to make money. The problem is actually with companies who are benefiting from Free Software for taking a passive approach. Has any institution/company approached any African government with an offer to provide material (read CDs) and technical (provided by local Free Software groups) support and were turned down. I doubt it. Regards, Moses > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20070619/5d79b558/attachment.htm From muguet at mdpi.net Tue Jun 19 22:57:35 2007 From: muguet at mdpi.net (Dr. Francis MUGUET) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:57:35 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] WIPO Negotiators Create New Development Mandate Message-ID: <4678433F.5060803@mdpi.net> For info ( but no time to comment ) http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index.php?p=656&res=1680_ff&print=0 ------------------------------------------------------------ 18 June 2007 In A ?Major Achievement?, WIPO Negotiators Create New Development Mandate By William New Members of a World Intellectual Property Organization committee addressing proposals for a WIPO Development Agenda last week potentially rewrote the UN body?s mandate, pending approval. Negotiators concluded a weeklong meeting with agreements on a wide range of proposals for new development-related activities - some hard to imagine for WIPO two years ago - and a recommendation to set up a new committee to implement the proposals. ?This is a major achievement,? said a participating official. ?It?s a complete overhaul of the WIPO concept, broadening it to reflect society?s growing concern with ownership of technologies and knowledge, and its effects for the future, both in developed and developing countries.? The 11-15 June Provisional Committee on Proposals for a WIPO Development Agenda (PCDA) also agreed to hold a one-day final meeting on 4 September to approve the chair?s report and the list of proposals to be implemented immediately based on informal consultations, according to an official. The PCDA recommendations from this meeting, and a previous one in February, will be submitted to the September General Assembly for final decision. June PCDA recommendations to General Assembly here June PCDA final proposals, clusters A to E here The United States, meanwhile, moved quickly to emphasise the inclusion of IP protection and that the recommendations are within the existing WIPO mandate. It also sought to tie the outcome to its hope for a renewed effort at harmonising national patent laws. The creation of the new WIPO Committee on Development and IP, which would hold its first meeting in the first half of 2008, will spell the end of the two-year-old PCDA, as well as a related existing committee, the Permanent Committee on Cooperation for Development Related to Intellectual Property (PCIPD). The new committee will start immediately to: ?develop a work programme for implementation of the adopted recommendations, monitor monitor, assess, discuss and report on the implementation of all recommendations adopted, and for that purpose it shall coordinate with relevant bodies; discuss IP and development related issues as agreed by the Committee, as well as those decided by the General Assembly.? PCDA Chair Trevor Clarke, the Barbados ambassador in Geneva, would be asked to prepare the initial working documents, including a draft work programme ? including financial and human resources needs - in consultation with WIPO members and the secretariat. All of the 45 proposals agreed in this year?s PCDA process will be adopted by the General Assembly and implemented, the participant said. There were 24 proposals agreed in February (IPW, WIPO, 23 February 2007). There are approximately 21 newly agreed proposals from the June meeting (IPW, WIPO, 15 June); IPW, WIPO, 14 June 2007; and IPW, WIPO, 14 June 2007). The idea for WIPO reform originated from Brazil and Argentina in 2004. The 45 recommendations were narrowed from 111 proposals submitted by a variety of countries over two years. All of the main issues from the original 111 proposals appear to have been retained in the process. Proposals agreed last week ranged from technical assistance to the making of rules, to technology transfer, to development impact assessments, to WIPO?s mandate. Topics range from protection to competition to access to knowledge to open collaborative models to support for the public domain. On the latter issue, an earlier reservation by Colombia appeared to have been preserved. US Ties Outcome To Patent Harmonisation The United States was seen by others as a gritty but fair negotiator during last week?s meeting. But the US may have had another objective in sight as it agreed to development compromises: patent harmonisation. Immediately following the meeting conclusion, the United States issued a statement that highlighted the importance of continuing WIPO?s work on development as well as on intellectual property protection. But it also tried to tie the outcome to the need for WIPO members to revive efforts to harmonise national patent laws, an issue that has met with a lukewarm reception among developing countries in the past. WIPO members should ?intensify consultations with the chair of the WIPO General Assembly with a view to reviving work in a core area of WIPO?s business, substantive patent law harmonisation,? it said. ?The 2007 General Assembly should agree not only on development proposals and the creation of a Development and IP Committee, but also on ambitious plans for substantive patent law harmonisation and resumption of the work of the Standing Committee on the Law of Patents.? The patent case may be a hard one for the United States and the rest of the developed countries to make, as they have spent 2007 working outside WIPO with reportedly little success to try to further harmonise their own laws. Group B+ Patent Harmonisation Meeting Postponed A planned formal meeting of the Group B-plus (the WIPO developed-country group plus others in the European Patent Organization), to have been hosted by the US Patent and Trademark Office, was postponed. In the meantime, the chair of the process, Anne Rejnhold J?rgensen of the Danish Patent Office, will hold informal consultations, she told Intellectual Property Watch. One such consultation will take place in Copenhagen on 4 and 5 July. Participation at the Copenhagen meeting is still unclear though countries have been invited, she said. Developed country sources said the formal meeting could be held in the autumn. It is unclear how much progress developed countries have made in finding ways to make their laws more alike, but they have focussed on a few areas. One is whether to recognise the first to file for a patent or the first to invent the idea, which is the US rule. The United States? patent reform effort, which has some momentum this year, would include a first-to-file provision, but it would still be different from the European first-to-file and might create new problems, a European official said. Many developing countries have signalled that they are yet to be convinced of the advantages to them of harmonisation. In addition, a developing country source said the language of the agreed PCDA recommendations makes clear that development was established as a WIPO programme of work, and that it would not be acceptable to link it with patent harmonisation. The newly agreed Development Agenda proposals along with those agreed at the February PCDA meeting, ?reinforce WIPO?s commitment to the needs of developing countries,? the United States said in a release. ?At the same time, they reaffirm WIPO?s clear mandate as the specialised UN agency that promotes the protection of intellectual property worldwide.? The US said it views the proposals as reflecting ?member states? recognition of the role that intellectual property plays in development, and their commitment to providing support to building national capacity to protect innovation and creativity.? ?During the negotiations, the US stressed that efforts to weaken the international IP framework or to fundamentally change WIPO?s current mission, which is to promote the protection of intellectual property, would not be consistent with the economic and development goals of its members,? it said. The US vowed to ?do its utmost to ensure that WIPO continues to contribute to development by deepening and expanding its intellectual property expertise, within its established mandate, and without duplicating the work of other international organisations.? But it then urged that ?the progress made on development issues also extend to other areas of WIPO?s work.? William New may be reached at wnew at ip-watch.ch. This work is licensed under a Creative Commons License. All of the news articles and features on Intellectual Property Watch are also subject to a Creative Commons License which makes them available for widescale, free, non-commercial reproduction and translation. -- ------------------------------------------------------ Francis F. MUGUET Ph.D MDPI Foundation Open Access Journals Associate Publisher http://www.mdpi.org http://www.mdpi.net muguet at mdpi.org muguet at mdpi.net ENSTA Paris, France KNIS lab. Director "Knowledge Networks & Information Society" (KNIS) muguet at ensta.fr http://www.ensta.fr/~muguet World Summit On the Information Society (WSIS) Civil Society Working Groups Scientific Information : http://www.wsis-si.org chair Patents & Copyrights : http://www.wsis-pct.org co-chair Financing Mechanismns : http://www.wsis-finance.org web UNMSP project : http://www.unmsp.org WTIS initiative: http://www.wtis.org ------------------------------------------------------ From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 20 00:27:19 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 18:27:19 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> (message from Moses Marimo on Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:24:29 +0200) References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> Message-ID: Their predatory marketing and pricing techniqus seems to be working and I think they will always work for as long as there are poor nations. We all understand why these tactics are effective. The question is, what can we do to fight back? When I talk of poverty, I know exactly what that means. Zimbabwe has a monthly inflation rate of at least 50% and annual inflation rate of at least 4,500% - the highest in the world.(this is not fiction!). It is not realistic to just preach Free software and end there in a country like Zimbabwe. Zimbabwe is a bad example because it is ruled by a murderous dictator. I would expect Zimbabweans to focus on their big problems, rather than on free software. However, not all African countries are in such a bad situation. From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 20 19:36:43 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 13:36:43 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] WIPO Negotiators Create New Development Mandate In-Reply-To: <4678433F.5060803@mdpi.net> (muguet@mdpi.net) References: <4678433F.5060803@mdpi.net> Message-ID: The US demand for "patent harmonization" seems to mean software patents (as well as US-style pharmaceutical patents, etc). This is too high a price to pay for US support for this proposal. Does anyone have contacts with which to spread the word? From rusdiah at rad.net.id Mon Jun 25 13:57:02 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:57:02 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> Message-ID: <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> Richard Stallman wrote: > Their predatory marketing and pricing techniqus seems to > be working and I think they will always work for as long as there are > poor nations. > Sharing what happened in Indonesia, they use IPR law and high pirate figure to force the government into signing MOU. The MOU will asked government of Indonesia to buy large amount of software at a special price. note: the mou was signed following/ after Indonesian president visit Bill Gates in his office in Redmond, USA. If they can force government official to use legal license software, the next step might be, that private sector has to follow, because all government officials including the police would now used legal software. When government and law enforcement would started to use legal software, it would be more justified for them to raid the private sector and civil society to force them to use legal license software. cmiiw. Another tactics is to sell cheaper license to school and university ... so that the these new generations will be more familiar with the proprietary software and tends to use this software when they graduate and entering the workforce or start to become new entrepreneur. cmiiw The amount of advertisement, training, seminar of these proprietary software are much more than the alternative software, to make these proprietary software more popular, user friendly and well know. cmiiw I think these tactics are common in developing countries where piracy is high due to high price of license software and unfamiliar to use alternative software ( open source and free software - nonproprietary unlicense software). cmiiw. regards, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel ( association of community Internet center) - indonesia > We all understand why these tactics are effective. The question is, > what can we do to fight back? > > When I talk of poverty, I know exactly what that means. Zimbabwe has a > monthly inflation rate of at least 50% and annual inflation rate of at > least 4,500% - the highest in the world.(this is not fiction!). It is > not realistic to just preach Free software and end there in a country > like Zimbabwe. > > Zimbabwe is a bad example because it is ruled by a murderous dictator. > I would expect Zimbabweans to focus on their big problems, rather > than on free software. However, not all African countries are in > such a bad situation. > > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct > > > From rms at gnu.org Mon Jun 25 17:46:23 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah rudi on Mon, 25 Jun 2007 18:57:02 +0700) References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> Message-ID: Sharing what happened in Indonesia, they use IPR law and high pirate figure to force the government into signing MOU. 1. Piracy is a big problem in Indonesia, but it has nothing to do with computers. Pirates are people that attack ships. To refer to people who copy software illegally "pirates" is to support the propaganda of Microsoft and others that wish to restrict the public. Please don't do that. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for more explanation. 2. The term "intellectual property" is propaganda too. It's biased, just like "pirate"; even worse, it is confusing. There are many different laws -- totally different -- which are referred to as "intellectual property". When that term is used, we cannot tell which law is involved, which means we can't understand even the first thing about what happened. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html for more explanation about this. If they can force government official to use legal license software, the next step might be, that private sector has to follow, because all government officials including the police would now used legal software. When government and law enforcement would started to use legal software, it would be more justified for them to raid the private sector and civil society to force them to use legal license software. I can understand that part of it. To respond, we have to say: "Copying software is not wrong. What's wrong is to stop people from copying software. Microsoft is a colonial power, and we should fight for our independence." cmiiw. What does that mean? Another tactics is to sell cheaper license to school and university ... so that the these new generations will be more familiar with the proprietary software and tends to use this software when they graduate and entering the workforce or start to become new entrepreneur. Yes. This is why we compare Microsoft to a drug pusher. Giving schools copies of a dependency-forming program is like giving them habit-forming drugs to distribute to the students. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html. From cnd at knowprose.com Mon Jun 25 20:54:03 2007 From: cnd at knowprose.com (Taran Rampersad) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 14:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <46800F4B.9090902@knowprose.com> rusdiah rudi wrote: > I think these tactics are common in developing countries where piracy is > high due to high price of license software and unfamiliar to use > alternative software ( open source and free software - nonproprietary > unlicense software). cmiiw. > Yes, we see it in the Caribbean and Latin America as well. Oddly, these are places where the BSA turns a blind eye. Enforcement of their own copyright licensing would actually work against them. Thus "piracy" (stay your keyboard, RMS - it's in quotes) continues. I have a standing challenge to Microsoft Caribbean to debate these issues in a public forum. Once challenged - and not just by myself, but other community members - public castigation of FOSS ceased. And when they step out of line, they are reminded of the challenge. Meanwhile, FOSS continues to make inroads and the same institutions which fail the public in other ways continue to do so in their software choices. In time, things will change. They will never change because of policy. They will only change because of community education and knowledge. When it takes 10 minutes to explain FOSS to a farmer, who then explains it clearly - you have something. And the hilarious thing is that it takes the "IT Professionals" months and even years to begin to grasp the concepts. Why? They have much to unlearn. Don't worry about the generation of 'experts' now. Worry about the next generation, whose parents may be farmers and who will be fighting to free themselves of the yoke. Critical thought gives one clear winner, especially with the egocentric "I" of youth. When they see the opportunities that they have with one and not the other - when they understand glass ceilings - then there is change. Meanwhile, do not worry so much over "Piracy", per se. The United States itself was guilty of the same until it gained its own writers of worth - the era of Twain and Thoreau. Suddenly, they grasped copyright law with both hands and leveraged it into the force of Law that occupies way too much discussion and way too little action.There is a reason why Tesla patented his inventions in Europe and the US - an important part of history which is largely neglected by those who are 'experts'. While the proprietary software is an infection, it is necessary to have it in a young society such that the community prepares the appropriate response to infection. A fever is a sign that the body is fighting an infection; it is a good sign. Globally, we have a fever. The fever will break in time. Drink lots of fluids and have some chicken soup. :-) -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago cnd at knowprose.com http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ "Criticize by creating." ? Michelangelo "The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine." - Nikola Tesla From rusdiah at rad.net.id Tue Jun 26 04:34:40 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:34:40 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] statistics & tactics:-) Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <46807B40.1030403@rad.net.id> Richard Stallman wrote: > Sharing what happened in Indonesia, they use IPR law and high piracy > figure to force the government into signing MOU. > > 1. Piracy is a big problem in Indonesia, but it has nothing to do with > computers. Pirates are people that attack ships. To refer to people > who copy software illegally "pirates" is to support the propaganda of > Microsoft and others that wish to restrict the public. Please don't > do that. > [rr] BSA is very smart. Somehow they got figure that 86% of PC in Indonesia are pirated(I think the figure come from IDC) , so they say that the piracy rate is 86% and they promote that Indonesia is number 3 or 4 worst piracy in the world today... this is funny... since density of PC in Indonesia is less than 3% (compared with 220 million population that are mostly farmer that never touch a PC :-) So actually piracy rate in Indonesia should be less than 86% of 3% which is less than 3%... so how can Indonesia ranking in piracy much higher than any developed nation including USA with piracy around 24% and let say population of PC is much much higher :-) This is equal as saying that developing countries using more software than developed countries :-) Funny but saddening. This is refer as the title of a book 'How to lie with statistics'... how figures and statistics can be used as strategy to force a policy for government in developing countries to buy their products. This is very unfair... for developing countries and emerging countries that has low PC density... yet they will say they are the highest used of piracy software ??? If you want to help... this is certainly one way to help the developing countries and emerging countries ? Regards, rudi rusdiah - APWKomitel - Indonesia > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for more > explanation. > > 2. The term "intellectual property" is propaganda too. It's biased, > just like "pirate"; even worse, it is confusing. There are many > different laws -- totally different -- which are referred to as > "intellectual property". When that term is used, we cannot tell which > law is involved, which means we can't understand even the first thing > about what happened. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html for more > explanation about this. > > If they can force government official to use legal license software, the > next step might be, that private sector has to follow, because all > government officials including the police would now used legal software. > When government and law enforcement would started to use legal software, > it would be more justified for them to raid the private sector and civil > society to force them to use legal license software. > > I can understand that part of it. To respond, we have to say: > "Copying software is not wrong. What's wrong is to stop people from > copying software. Microsoft is a colonial power, and we should fight > for our independence." > > cmiiw. > > What does that mean? > > Another tactics is to sell cheaper license to school and university ... > so that the these new generations will be more familiar with the > proprietary software and tends to use this software when they graduate > and entering the workforce or start to become new entrepreneur. > > Yes. This is why we compare Microsoft to a drug pusher. Giving > schools copies of a dependency-forming program is like giving them > habit-forming drugs to distribute to the students. > > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html. > > > From rusdiah at rad.net.id Tue Jun 26 04:56:49 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:56:49 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <46800F4B.9090902@knowprose.com> References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> <46800F4B.9090902@knowprose.com> Message-ID: <46808071.5040300@rad.net.id> Taran Rampersad wrote: > rusdiah rudi wrote: > >> I think these tactics are common in developing countries where piracy is >> high due to high price of license software and unfamiliar to use >> alternative software ( open source and free software - nonproprietary >> unlicense software). cmiiw. >> >> > Yes, we see it in the Caribbean and Latin America as well. Oddly, these > are places where the BSA turns a blind eye. Enforcement of their own > copyright licensing would actually work against them. Thus "piracy" > (stay your keyboard, RMS - it's in quotes) continues. > > I have a standing challenge to Microsoft Caribbean to debate these > issues in a public forum. Once challenged - and not just by myself, but > other community members - public castigation of FOSS ceased. And when > they step out of line, they are reminded of the challenge. > --- [rr] yes, i did the same thing. I challenged the Indonesian government ( ministry of communication and information) to open a public debate ( also include BSA and microsoft) on this issue and figure and find out if these figures and statistics that are mention by these organization are right ? and how do they get to such conclusion that many countries in the developing world are mostly the biggest piracy of software in the world today :-) this is the same as saying that developing countries are using more software thus more advanced than developed countries ? funny but saddening, rgds, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel - indonesia --- > Meanwhile, FOSS continues to make inroads and the same institutions > which fail the public in other ways continue to do so in their software > choices. In time, things will change. They will never change because of > policy. They will only change because of community education and knowledge. > > When it takes 10 minutes to explain FOSS to a farmer, who then explains > it clearly - you have something. And the hilarious thing is that it > takes the "IT Professionals" months and even years to begin to grasp the > concepts. Why? They have much to unlearn. Don't worry about the > generation of 'experts' now. Worry about the next generation, whose > parents may be farmers and who will be fighting to free themselves of > the yoke. Critical thought gives one clear winner, especially with the > egocentric "I" of youth. When they see the opportunities that they have > with one and not the other - when they understand glass ceilings - then > there is change. > > Meanwhile, do not worry so much over "Piracy", per se. The United States > itself was guilty of the same until it gained its own writers of worth - > the era of Twain and Thoreau. Suddenly, they grasped copyright law with > both hands and leveraged it into the force of Law that occupies way too > much discussion and way too little action.There is a reason why Tesla > patented his inventions in Europe and the US - an important part of > history which is largely neglected by those who are 'experts'. While the > proprietary software is an infection, it is necessary to have it in a > young society such that the community prepares the appropriate response > to infection. A fever is a sign that the body is fighting an infection; > it is a good sign. Globally, we have a fever. The fever will break in time. > > Drink lots of fluids and have some chicken soup. :-) > > [rr] Actually , I can prove that United States piracy is worse than Indonesia in the USD amount and absolute piracy population density figure, but unfortunately not according to the ranking used by BSA. why ? is this tactics to force developing countries to buy license software ? rgds, rudi rusdiah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20070626/b2eb518d/attachment.htm From cnd at knowprose.com Tue Jun 26 06:29:31 2007 From: cnd at knowprose.com (Taran Rampersad) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:29:31 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <46808071.5040300@rad.net.id> References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> <46800F4B.9090902@knowprose.com> <46808071.5040300@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <4680962B.8020507@knowprose.com> rusdiah rudi wrote: > [rr] yes, i did the same thing. I challenged the Indonesian government > ( ministry of communication and information) to open a public debate ( > also include BSA and microsoft) on this issue and figure and find out > if these figures and statistics that are mention by these organization > are right ? and how do they get to such conclusion that many countries > in the developing world are mostly the biggest piracy of software in > the world today :-) > this is the same as saying that developing countries are using more > software thus more advanced than developed countries ? TRIPs and GATT. These copyright and patent policies are tied to other economic agreements in this manner, thus shouting 'piracy' gains them leverage. Then they turn around and 'give' things as philanthropy. If I give you something and I still have it - is it really philanthropy? Philanthropy which doesn't address policy and instead focuses on 'giving' is somewhat amusing. It is like taking your clippings of grass, tossing them on your neighbor's yard and then asking them to write proposals for funding to remove the clippings of grass. The elephant in the middle of the table that no one is speaking openly about is US policy which threatens network neutrality and software choice at a global level. This is why the US presence at WSIS was predictably atrophied. Much could be done if US policy were fixed, but instead we diplomatically talk around that. I have 2 citizenships - maybe even 3, and possibly 4 in the near future - but I was born in the US. I served in the Navy. But even with my American passport out, I am constantly amazed at how many of my fellow Americans wander around the world instead of fixing what is in plain sight. That takes money, of course, so maybe that is the problem. Or maybe - more scary - maybe the problem is that they do not believe change in US policy can come from within. But I digress. TRIPs agreements are never made public; would that they were - this is an issue of government transparency, and may be of use to political parties during an election. The problem, of course, is once in power politicians forget what they said before the election. Let us not forget that one of the first people on the ground in Iraq upon completion of the invasion was none other than Hilary Rosen. Mission? Rewrite Iraq copyright law. If the UN couldn't stop the invasion, even calling it illegal, how much weight do we really think the UN has when it comes to copyright law? > [rr] Actually , I can prove that United States piracy is worse than > Indonesia in the USD amount and absolute piracy population density > figure, but unfortunately not according to the ranking used by BSA. Maybe so. Does it really matter? The sales figures are based on projections; if people actually had to pay for the software they might not use it. The actual 'goods' are licenses to use the software. It is somewhat amusing to consider that you can have an item without a license and be accused of stealing because you have no license. If you get a gun outside of normal channels, you are not guilty of theft. It is an illegal weapon. So, we could say that what they call "pirated" is 'illegal software'. That's a phrase you won't hear the BSA use. They don't want to go around accusing people of using 'illegal software', because brand names will be associated with the term 'illegal'. That would be very unfortunate for the poor little rich kids. > why ? is this tactics to force developing countries to buy license > software ? If it is a tactic, it certainly isn't effective or smart. If they argue that their numbers are true, which they do, then ask them why the numbers continue to go up despite their best efforts. The RIAA argued that they were sustaining losses when peer to peer software such as Napster was in the public eye - yet the companies behind the RIAA showed substantial growth *with* the alleged losses. Pharmaceutical companies complain about indigenous peoples using 'their' patents, as if it were theft - and yet they took the heritage of these people, patented it and sustain profits. TRIPs and GATT are tools used to maintain the status quo. If we truly wish to change the status quo, it stands to reason that TRIPs and GATT will have to be adapted to a more even keel. It is unfortunate that in changing the world to one that is more pleasant, many feel the need to break it into pieces and treat each part separately. It is my opinion that a more comprehensive approach is required. Where to start? How can we know how to fix a trade agreement if we cannot see it? -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago cnd at knowprose.com http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ "Criticize by creating." ? Michelangelo "The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine." - Nikola Tesla From john at johnhowkins.com Tue Jun 26 10:22:18 2007 From: john at johnhowkins.com (John Howkins) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:22:18 +0100 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <46808071.5040300@rad.net.id> Message-ID: Can you give a link to those figures showing US copyright theft worse than Indonesia?s? Thanks -- The RSA Adelphi Charter on Creativity, Innovation and Intellectual Property www.adelphicharter.org www.rsa.org.uk/projects/intellectual_property_charter.asp John Howkins tel: +44 (20) 7434 1400 fax: +44 (870) 134 3268 mob: +44 (7785) 394 283 email: john at johnhowkins.com On 26/6/07 3:56 am, "rusdiah rudi" wrote: > Taran Rampersad wrote: >> >> rusdiah rudi wrote: >> >> >>> >>> I think these tactics are common in developing countries where piracy is >>> high due to high price of license software and unfamiliar to use >>> alternative software ( open source and free software - nonproprietary >>> unlicense software). cmiiw. >>> >>> >>> >> >> Yes, we see it in the Caribbean and Latin America as well. Oddly, these >> are places where the BSA turns a blind eye. Enforcement of their own >> copyright licensing would actually work against them. Thus "piracy" >> (stay your keyboard, RMS - it's in quotes) continues. >> >> I have a standing challenge to Microsoft Caribbean to debate these >> issues in a public forum. Once challenged - and not just by myself, but >> other community members - public castigation of FOSS ceased. And when >> they step out of line, they are reminded of the challenge. >> > --- > [rr] yes, i did the same thing. I challenged the Indonesian government ( > ministry of communication and information) to open a public debate ( also > include BSA and microsoft) on this issue and figure and find out if these > figures and statistics that are mention by these organization are right ? and > how do they get to such conclusion that many countries in the developing world > are mostly the biggest piracy of software in the world today :-) > this is the same as saying that developing countries are using more software > thus more advanced than developed countries ? > > funny but saddening, rgds, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel - indonesia > --- >> >> >> Meanwhile, FOSS continues to make inroads and the same institutions >> which fail the public in other ways continue to do so in their software >> choices. In time, things will change. They will never change because of >> policy. They will only change because of community education and knowledge. >> >> When it takes 10 minutes to explain FOSS to a farmer, who then explains >> it clearly - you have something. And the hilarious thing is that it >> takes the "IT Professionals" months and even years to begin to grasp the >> concepts. Why? They have much to unlearn. Don't worry about the >> generation of 'experts' now. Worry about the next generation, whose >> parents may be farmers and who will be fighting to free themselves of >> the yoke. Critical thought gives one clear winner, especially with the >> egocentric "I" of youth. When they see the opportunities that they have >> with one and not the other - when they understand glass ceilings - then >> there is change. >> >> Meanwhile, do not worry so much over "Piracy", per se. The United States >> itself was guilty of the same until it gained its own writers of worth - >> the era of Twain and Thoreau. Suddenly, they grasped copyright law with >> both hands and leveraged it into the force of Law that occupies way too >> much discussion and way too little action.There is a reason why Tesla >> patented his inventions in Europe and the US - an important part of >> history which is largely neglected by those who are 'experts'. While the >> proprietary software is an infection, it is necessary to have it in a >> young society such that the community prepares the appropriate response >> to infection. A fever is a sign that the body is fighting an infection; >> it is a good sign. Globally, we have a fever. The fever will break in time. >> >> Drink lots of fluids and have some chicken soup. :-) >> >> > > [rr] Actually , I can prove that? United States piracy? is worse than > Indonesia in the USD amount and absolute piracy population density figure,? > but unfortunately? not according to the ranking used by BSA. > > why ? is this tactics to force developing countries to buy license software ? > > rgds, rudi rusdiah > > > > _______________________________________________ > WSIS-PCT mailing list > WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org > https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20070626/fff7f3d8/attachment.htm From zielinskic at who.int Tue Jun 26 11:09:18 2007 From: zielinskic at who.int (Zielinski, Christopher) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:09:18 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] Message-ID: Come on, now - this pointless battle over words like "piracy" and "intellectual property" is such a diversion from real and useful work in this area. If you are really diverted into thinking that "piracy" means people with eye patches and bandannas (or even that Microsoft wants you to think of infringers that way), then I guess you keep looking for cockroaches in your software when someone tells you there is a bug, wood in your web log, a stash in your cache, etc. IMHO we should use the words and disagree about the issues, rather than wasting time on making the words the issues. Cheers, Chris Chris Zielinski Knowledge Systems, WHO, Geneva (in personal capacity) -----Original Message----- From: wsis-pct-bounces at fsfeurope.org [mailto:wsis-pct-bounces at fsfeurope.org] On Behalf Of Richard Stallman Sent: 25 June 2007 17:46 To: rusdiah rudi Cc: WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org; marimo at timb.co.zw Subject: Re: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] Sharing what happened in Indonesia, they use IPR law and high pirate figure to force the government into signing MOU. 1. Piracy is a big problem in Indonesia, but it has nothing to do with computers. Pirates are people that attack ships. To refer to people who copy software illegally "pirates" is to support the propaganda of Microsoft and others that wish to restrict the public. Please don't do that. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html for more explanation. 2. The term "intellectual property" is propaganda too. It's biased, just like "pirate"; even worse, it is confusing. There are many different laws -- totally different -- which are referred to as "intellectual property". When that term is used, we cannot tell which law is involved, which means we can't understand even the first thing about what happened. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html for more explanation about this. If they can force government official to use legal license software, the next step might be, that private sector has to follow, because all government officials including the police would now used legal software. When government and law enforcement would started to use legal software, it would be more justified for them to raid the private sector and civil society to force them to use legal license software. I can understand that part of it. To respond, we have to say: "Copying software is not wrong. What's wrong is to stop people from copying software. Microsoft is a colonial power, and we should fight for our independence." cmiiw. What does that mean? Another tactics is to sell cheaper license to school and university ... so that the these new generations will be more familiar with the proprietary software and tends to use this software when they graduate and entering the workforce or start to become new entrepreneur. Yes. This is why we compare Microsoft to a drug pusher. Giving schools copies of a dependency-forming program is like giving them habit-forming drugs to distribute to the students. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/schools.html. _______________________________________________ WSIS-PCT mailing list WSIS-PCT at fsfeurope.org https://mail.fsfeurope.org/mailman/listinfo/wsis-pct From greve at fsfeurope.org Tue Jun 26 11:40:56 2007 From: greve at fsfeurope.org (Georg C. F. Greve) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:40:56 +0200 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Six questions to national standardisation bodies Message-ID: FYI: http://fsfeurope.org/documents/msooxml-questions http://www.fsfe.org/fellows/greve/freedom_bits/six_questions_to_national_standardisation_bodies Regards, Georg -- Georg C. F. Greve Free Software Foundation Europe (http://fsfeurope.org) Join the Fellowship and protect your freedom! (http://www.fsfe.org) What everyone should know about DRM (http://DRM.info) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 306 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.fsfeurope.org/pipermail/wsis-pct/attachments/20070626/b0c2ef29/attachment.pgp From rusdiah at rad.net.id Tue Jun 26 13:05:20 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:05:20 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] statistics how to ? Developing vs Developed Countries Piracy Figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4680F2F0.3090004@rad.net.id> John Howkins wrote: > Can you give a link to those figures showing US copyright theft worse than > Indonesia?s? > Thanks > Dear Howkins, Very interesting questions, I hope you can follow my calculation below: PC density in USA is: 83 per 100 inhabitant ( http://www.eu-energystar.org/en/en_042b.shtml ) PC density in Indonesia is 3 per 100 inhabitant ( less than 6 million PC out of 220 million populations - APWKomitel figure obtained from accumulated IDC figures) If piracy in USA is the lowest 21% , then it is 21% of 83% ( 83 per 100 inhabitant) which is about 16 per 100 inhabitant In USD 6,645 million If piracy in Indonesia is the 3rd highest at 87% (2004) of 3% ( 3 per 100 inhabitant) which is about 2 per 100 inhabitant. In USD 183 million Data from pdf file downloaded from www.bsa.org year 2004 (taken from Second BSA and IDC global software piracy study - may 2005) So it is obvious that USA copyright theft is worse than Indonesia's But why in every publications by BSA categorized USA as the country with the lowest piracy and Indonesia as a countries among the highest piracy rate... while the USD amount of piracy in USA is USD 6,645/USD 183 which is 36(thirty six) times of Indonesia ??? Is it fair to use the percentage of PC pirated when the density of PC is very very low in developing countries , and majority of the people has probably never touch a PC ??? This is a good example of how number can be played around depending on what is your mission is ... or may we say as a title of a book said 'how to lie with statistics ? This calculation also applied with any countries that has low PC density which are mostly developing and underdeveloping countries in the world today. Regards, Rudy Rusdiah - APWKomitel - Indonesia Note: I presented once this calculation in one of the preparation meeting in KL for Internet Governance in WSIS Tunis and also we challenged my government not to go along with the MOU, but asked BSA/Microsoft about this issue before. From rms at gnu.org Tue Jun 26 18:58:43 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:58:43 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: (zielinskic@who.int) References: Message-ID: Come on, now - this pointless battle over words like "piracy" and "intellectual property" is such a diversion from real and useful work in this area. I've done a fair amount of real and useful work in this area over the past 24 years, and long experience leads me to recognize that these propaganda words are tremendously effective. I suggest you read what Lakoff says about "framing". If you are really diverted into thinking that "piracy" means people with eye patches and bandannas Modern-day pirates (and they exist in Indonesia) probably use assault rifles, and probably wear clothing that won't draw attention to them. So what? IMHO we should use the words and disagree about the issues, You are welcome to try, but these propaganda words will work against you if you advocate more than a tiny reform. It is hard to argue that "piracy" is ethical and that people should be free to do it, while using a derogatory name for it. It is hard to start a thoughtful discussion of copyright issues (or patent issues) while the term "intellectual property" confuses copyright with other laws. If we want to overcome our enemies, we have to stop supporting them with our communications. Sharing is friendship. To prohibit sharing is to attack social solidarity. From rms at gnu.org Tue Jun 26 18:58:19 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:58:19 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] statistics & tactics:-) Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <46807B40.1030403@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah rudi on Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:34:40 +0700) References: <46689ECC.8000506@mdpi.net> <1182180269.4919.41.camel@marimo-laptop> <467FAD8E.20905@rad.net.id> <46807B40.1030403@rad.net.id> Message-ID: So actually piracy rate in Indonesia should be less than 86% of 3% which is less than 3%... so how can Indonesia ranking in piracy much higher than any developed nation including USA with piracy around 24% and let say population of PC is much much higher :-) I would say this is an example of how to tell a _half-truth_ with statistics. (There is a saying that "a half-truth is worse than a lie.") The answer isn't exactly false, but it responds to the wrong question. We should argue with their basic position: the position that unauthorized copying is wrong and that the government of Indonesia should try to prevent it. How much unauthorized copying occurs in Indonesia is a little detail; we should not get distracted by that from the real issue. Lanun yang menyerang kapal, bukan yang menyalin. From rms at gnu.org Tue Jun 26 18:58:40 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:58:40 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: (message from John Howkins on Tue, 26 Jun 2007 09:22:18 +0100) References: Message-ID: I read the Adelphi Charter when it was published, and was disappointed by its weak stand. I asked them to consider strengthening it, but they did not. I don't remember the details now. From john at johnhowkins.com Tue Jun 26 23:51:06 2007 From: john at johnhowkins.com (John Howkins) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:51:06 +0100 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Richard, If I remember correctly, you were disappointed that we used the phrase intellectual property, and with our belief in balance. I still believe that the Adelphi Charter is the best statement so far of the public interest in the regulation of ideas; which, in practice, means the public interest in copyright and registered marks. Nobody has yet bettered it. Cheers John On 26/6/07 5:58 pm, "Richard Stallman" wrote: > I read the Adelphi Charter when it was published, and was disappointed > by its weak stand. I asked them to consider strengthening it, but > they did not. I don't remember the details now. From rusdiah at rad.net.id Wed Jun 27 03:27:22 2007 From: rusdiah at rad.net.id (rusdiah rudi) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:27:22 +0700 Subject: [Wsis-pct] farmers or pirates :-) Indonesian case ?'membajak' [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4681BCFA.5060307@rad.net.id> This becomes more funny... when the word 'piracy' is translated to Indonesia word 'membajak'. This word 'membajak' can have two meaning in Indonesia: The first meaning is 'illegal copying' and The second meaning is 'Plowing rice field by farmer'.... so when BSA and Microsoft said that 'piracy' or 'membajak' rate is 87%...... may be they refer to the number of farmers , not (software) pirates :-) Because Indonesia is still an agriculture country... there are much more farmers than programmers or pirate in the sea... and there are more rural than urban villages... so may be only 3% of the population has touch PC and it is so funny that BSA ranks this country as one of the highest piracy in the world... :-) note:Talking about pirates, Indonesia is an archipelago nation with 17,000 islands , may be half still with no name, so Stalman is right there are still pirate or probably tribe living in stone age in those seas and islands :-) They might as well or should say, that Indonesia is more advanced in using software than any developed country :-) Its rather funny but it is true, ... ups half true :-) and yet this is the wisdom and statistics of advanced civilization :-) Regards, rudi rusdiah - apwkomitel - indonesia. Richard Stallman wrote: > Come on, now - this pointless battle over words like "piracy" and > "intellectual property" is such a diversion from real and useful work in > this area. > > I've done a fair amount of real and useful work in this area over the > past 24 years, and long experience leads me to recognize that these > propaganda words are tremendously effective. > > I suggest you read what Lakoff says about "framing". > > If you are really diverted into thinking that "piracy" means > people with eye patches and bandannas > > Modern-day pirates (and they exist in Indonesia) probably use assault > rifles, and probably wear clothing that won't draw attention to them. > So what? > > IMHO we should use the > words and disagree about the issues, > > You are welcome to try, but these propaganda words will work against > you if you advocate more than a tiny reform. It is hard to argue that > "piracy" is ethical and that people should be free to do it, while > using a derogatory name for it. It is hard to start a thoughtful > discussion of copyright issues (or patent issues) while the term > "intellectual property" confuses copyright with other laws. > > If we want to overcome our enemies, we have to stop supporting them > with our communications. > > > Sharing is friendship. > To prohibit sharing is to attack social solidarity. > > > From cnd at knowprose.com Wed Jun 27 17:42:37 2007 From: cnd at knowprose.com (Taran Rampersad) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:42:37 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] farmers or pirates :-) Indonesian case ?'membajak' [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <4681BCFA.5060307@rad.net.id> References: <4681BCFA.5060307@rad.net.id> Message-ID: <4682856D.9020109@knowprose.com> rusdiah rudi wrote: > This becomes more funny... when the word 'piracy' is translated to > Indonesia word 'membajak'. > This word 'membajak' can have two meaning in Indonesia: > > The first meaning is 'illegal copying' and The second meaning is > 'Plowing rice field by farmer'.... > Amusing but worrisome, given the increasing prevalence of patented crops... Random reference: http://www.peertopatent.org -- Taran Rampersad Presently in: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago cnd at knowprose.com http://www.knowprose.com Pictures: http://www.flickr.com/photos/knowprose/ "Criticize by creating." ? Michelangelo "The present is theirs; the future, for which I really worked, is mine." - Nikola Tesla From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 27 18:47:51 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:47:51 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] developing vs developed countries piracy figure ? Indonesian case ? [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: (message from John Howkins on Tue, 26 Jun 2007 22:51:06 +0100) References: Message-ID: If I remember correctly, you were disappointed that we used the phrase intellectual property, and with our belief in balance. The concept of "balance", as usually applied in copyright discussions, is a misguided goal. For an explanation, see the article http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/misinterpreting-copyright.html. Copyright is an artificial limitation on the natural rights of every reader/listener/user. No private interest can justify that; only a public interest can do so. Therefore we must reject the idea of trying to balance private interests with the public interest in copyright questions. I still believe that the Adelphi Charter is the best statement so far of the public interest in the regulation of ideas; which, in practice, means the public interest in copyright and registered marks. While copyright law or to trademark law are totally different in what they DO, they have in common something that they DON'T do: neither one applies to ideas. From rms at gnu.org Wed Jun 27 21:49:48 2007 From: rms at gnu.org (Richard Stallman) Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 15:49:48 -0400 Subject: [Wsis-pct] farmers or pirates :-) Indonesian case ?'membajak' [Fwd: UN-BACKED FORUM AIMS TO SPREAD TECHNOLOGY KNOW-HOW IN AFRICA] In-Reply-To: <4681BCFA.5060307@rad.net.id> (message from rusdiah rudi on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:27:22 +0700) References: <4681BCFA.5060307@rad.net.id> Message-ID: I have heard that piracy is a serious problem in Indonesian waters. Every so often a ship disappears, and neither it, nor its cargo, nor its crew are ever seen again. People suppose that the crews are murdered.